Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/16/1994 08:00 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HJR 51 - SUIT RE POWS & MIAS AGAINST U.S. & OTHERS CHAIRMAN VEZEY opened HJR 51 for discussion. Number 094 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, SPONSOR OF HJR 51, gave a brief statement. She noted her sponsor statement was in the packet, therefore she would state her concern and purpose for filing HJR 51. She said the dissention of POWs and MIAs has been ongoing, and she believed most people will agree that it had never been satisfactorily concluded. Any lawsuits regarding MIAs or POWs have not been successful because the only way to get standing in the court would be for the MIA or POW to be present. She noted if they were there, however, there would be no case. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES mentioned a representative from Michigan has determined there is a possibility for the states to file suit against the federal government in a Supreme Court. The states would have standing in representing the people in their residence. Therefore, HJR 51 came by way of Michigan, which they passed. If there is sufficient participation by the states, a joint suit could be filed against the government to resolve the situation with the POWs and the MIAs. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated the information in HJR 51 is correct. She noted a disturbance she has with the fiscal note. She believed it presently has a zero fiscal note; however, there is a note stating if a suit was filed attorney fees would be associated. She understood a suit would not be filed by the state, but the state would participate in a suit by the other states over the POWs and MIAs. She felt the people that served the country well in the military deserve the attention to bring the disappearance of people to some successful conclusion. Number 167 TIM ARMSTRONG, COMMANDER, AMERICAN LEGION, AUKE BAY POST 25, supported HJR 51. He also unofficially represented the members of the Disabled American Veterans, Military Order of the Purple Heart, and the Veterans of Foreign Wars. He applauded the effort made by REPRESENTATIVE JAMES. A number of individuals, being Vietnam, Korean, and World War II veterans, felt there has never been a true accounting of the POWs. They support HJR 51. Number 191 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked who Thomas E. Anderson, U.S. Marine Corp, and Howard M. Koslosky, U.S. Navy, were. (page 2, line 26) MR. ARMSTRONG answered he was unfamiliar with them on an individual basis; however, they are the two Alaskans unaccounted for. They spawned the interest for HJR 51. Number 205 CHAIRMAN VEZEY clarified they are the two official Alaskan MIAs. MR. ARMSTRONG affirmed CHAIRMAN VEZEY. As veterans, they feel suppressed by the fact that the U.S. government has not pursued the issue adequately. He noted Gerald Coffee, who was a Navy pilot shot down in 1966 and held as a captive in the "Hanoi Hilton" and released in 1973, spoke as a POW that there were more prisoners that have been held in Vietnam, as well as in Russia. They conclude prisoners have been and might still be held, therefore they seek an accounting of those prisoners. He noted those people who feel this process might be too expensive probably were not involved or related to those MIAs or POWs who remain unaccounted for. Number 245 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS inquired if there was not a U.S. defense policy that after each war there is an accounting. He referred to HJR 51, beginning on page 1, line 9 which states the "United States government position is that all of these POWs have been returned,..." Who has made the determination. Number 258 MR. ARMSTRONG responded "there was a Senator Karey who made it,...based on the premise that the U.S. government was unwilling to spend much more money attempting to locate any more of these POWs... We thought of it as an embarrassment to the country, because we are unaware as to why these prisoners are being held." Number 267 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS clarified that it was a congressman, as opposed to a person in the Defense Department. Number 290 CHAIRMAN VEZEY moved to the Kenai teleconference site. Number 292 NANCY GOURLEY testified via teleconference in support of HJR 51. She stated her brother was lost in Vietnam on February 18, 1971. They have been trying for several years to account for the loss of her brother. She stated the Senate Select Committee during the tenure have concluded men were alive at the end of the war and did not return. She wanted to know what happened to those men that were left, and those missing, however, declared killed. Her family has dedicated an enormous amount of time and financial resources to answer these questions. She urged support of HJR 51. She stated her family has been lied to, deceived and misled by higher agencies within the government. Her brother's crash sight was excavated in February 1991. Only a single tooth was recovered out of the entire human remains. He was buried based on the recovery of a single tooth at the family's opposition. The family finds this tragic. Her brother was lost in Laos and of 588 lost there, not one was returned. Number 355 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS stated he understood she had made extensive attempts to get actual details of what happened to her brother. He noted HJR 51 states the government has ceased investigations for those who may still be there. He asked if HJR 51 was the only way to get the government to do a proper investigation and report back to the families of those lost. Number 372 MS. GOURLEY affirmed REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS. She stated they have gone to Congress, done demonstrations, and they have two nationally recognized organizations comprised of family members. She felt there is nothing more they can do. Number 393 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS repeated page 1, lines 9-11, and said this would indicate to him there is no one in the U.S. government making any attempts to identify or return any POWs that may be lost. MS. GOURLEY agreed. Veterans organizations and the American Legion. She mentioned across the country there is the National Vietnam Veterans Coalition, Bravo, Homecoming 2, etc... Number 411 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated based on a letter from the American Legion, there are some suggested amendments to the language. She submitted the changes as an amendment to HJR 51(MLV). Number 422 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked if the committee had adopted anything. CHAIRMAN VEZEY answered no. He said the matter officially before the committee was HJR 51. Number 425 REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS moved to adopt CSHJR 51(MLV). Number 428 CHAIRMAN VEZEY, hearing no objection, adopted CSHJR 51(MLV). Number 429 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated first change the language on page 1, line 9, to read "WHEREAS the [implied] United States government position [is] that all..." This change would say the same thing without being so demanding. Number 437 CHAIRMAN VEZEY questioned if the U.S. government has taken an official position as to the disposition of the POWs and MIAs. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES answered she did not have any evidence to provide they have. Therefore, less demanding language would do the same thing. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated on page 1, line 12, the general's name should be "Kwang," not "Kwong." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated on page 2, beginning on line 5, it should state,"...yet individuals [within] the federal intelligence agencies have tried to discredit..." The less demanding wording would be more effective and actual. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES referred to page 2, line 16, which would be changed to read,"...may still be held in Southeast Asia and is not actively searching for remaining Americans;..." This would be better language than saying the are "obstructing the search." Number 458 CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated the WHEREAS, beginning line 15, causes him concern because he was under the impression the government had a contingency of American military in Southeast Asia engaging in sight searches currently. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied she was not aware of it. Number 468 MS. GOURLEY interjected there are some crash sight investigations going on, however, they do not have anything underway for those lost. Number 478 CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if there was a motion to adopt the proposed amendments to CSHJR 51(MLV). REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG so moved. CHAIRMAN VEZEY, hearing no objection, adopted the amendments. He noted a committee substitute would have to be drawn up, therefore CSHJR 51(STA) would be brought back up at Monday's meeting. Number 487 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES thanked the men from the veterans organization who were present at the meeting in support of CSHJR 51. ADJOURNMENT CHAIRMAN VEZEY, hearing no more business before the committee, adjourned the meeting at 9:30 a.m.
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